Gene J. Puskar - AP
over 1 year ago: Pittsburgh Pirates catcher Erik Kratz, left, tags out Milwaukee Brewers' Prince Fielder, who was attempting to score in the eighth inning on a single to right field by Alcides Escobar, during a baseball game in Pittsburgh, Thursday, July 22, 2010. (AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar)
The Tigers will sign Prince Fielder to a nine-year deal worth $214 million. It's a shame that no team in the NL Central ended up getting saddled with that contract, which is utterly insane for a player with "early decline" written all over him, but in the meantime, Fielder won't be able to torment the Pirates (against whom he has 27 career home runs, more than against any other team) quite so much.
0 recs | 210 comments
Why did't NH sign him?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
SuperBaes - January 24, 2012
Because Nutting is cheap!!!!!1!!1one!!!
And stuff.
IAPiratesFan - January 24, 2012
Which contract do you think Boras had his client sign quicker: Fielder or Werth?
blackjackfishtaco - January 24, 2012
Werth
I don’t think this is really too crazy. High, sure, but Werth was so far above anything I even imagined.
SuperBaes - January 24, 2012
Sets up an intriguing matchup
Prince vs Miguel Cabrera for first in line at the postgame buffet.
maguro - January 24, 2012 via mobile
"Lay off the sauce"
Will have double meaning in the Tigers locker room now.
Nate Wilder - January 24, 2012
On the bright side....
We don’t have to watch him hit like half a dozen HRs against us this year.
IAPiratesFan - January 24, 2012
We seem to see this phrase . . . oh . . . about 287 times a year.
WTM - January 24, 2012
we play detroit 6 games this year.
its still possible. karstans will plunk him, imo.
karreemofwheat - January 24, 2012
Well Pittsburgh is playing Detroit TWICE this season
so there’s still a chance.
BadAndy - January 24, 2012
Still confused about the deal
why the crap would you pay 24 mill per for your DH!? Miggy cannot play 3rd base anymore. VMart will be back after this year. What will they do?
Mingy - January 24, 2012
I brought this up when my buddy texted me about this
I have no idea. It doesn’t make sense to move a) your offensive force coming off an MVP-caliber season or b) your big money FA to a new, more difficult position. V-Mart’s 33 (with 850 games caught under his belt) and still has 2013 and 2014 on the hook for $25 million and Alex Avila made the all star team last year.
Complete guess: I’d say Fielder and Cabrera basically rotate 1B with Fielder getting a few more games (90 vs. 70; something like that). The other DH’s. V-Mart gets dealt to the M’s or some other lineup lacking some punch (maybe the A’s or O’s) in the offseason… and we have a 400 comment discussion on how great of a deal the A’s/M’s/O’s got.
SuperBaes - January 24, 2012
VMart
Give him a 1B mitt and put him in black and gold. lol
Brakeman8 - January 24, 2012
wow, i actually like the sound of that
as long as we dont have to pay for 2012 that is.
white angus - January 24, 2012
Martinez is owed $13M for 2013 and $12M for 2014…so figure that into your assumptions as to whether he will be on the Pirates roster.
Thunder - January 24, 2012
i know realistically it wont happen
but Martinez is the kind of hitter this team needs; a real “hitter”.
white angus - January 25, 2012
the M's won't work for V-Mart
They just got themselves a DH who owns a catcher’s mitt.
WHYG Zane Smith - January 24, 2012
I thought Doumit went to the Twins?
SuperBaes - January 24, 2012
He’s talking about Montero.
Thunder - January 24, 2012
Thunder has it
Doumit wouldn’t be a problem anyway, because he’s on a 1-year contract, and also because no sane GM would pass up V-Mart just because they had Doumit on the roster.
WHYG Zane Smith - January 24, 2012
(I knew that)
SuperBaes - January 25, 2012
i got the joke
tough room, eh?
white angus - January 25, 2012
Trade V-Mart next offseason, would be my guess.
Vlad - January 25, 2012
Funny how this scenario keeps repeating itself. High-revenue contending team swoops in out of nowhere and signs premium FA, sometimes out from under the nose of a less successful team. Texeira, Lee, Pujols, Fielder, probably others I’m forgetting. The Nats got Werth by giving an elite contract to a non-elite player, but the elite players are going to sign with the elite teams. This is why it’s so tiresome to see the inevitable arguments about how the Pirates should sign guys like this. The Nats REALLY wanted Fielder, just like they really wanted Tex, and they have one of the richest owners in MLB (in fact, he may even be THE richest), yet they couldn’t get it done.
WTM - January 24, 2012
Unless
there was somebody on this list, Lerner is the richest owner in baseball…
KentuckyPirate - January 24, 2012
dammit
*somebody on the list (that I missed), Lerner is the richest
KentuckyPirate - January 24, 2012
a few names after lerner, ron burkle.
please mr. nutting sale the team.
karreemofwheat - January 24, 2012
John Perrotto tweeted this a while ago:
“#Pirates fans show up in droves and owner rewards them with Clint Barmes. That’s not how it’s supposed to work.”
“#Tigers fans show up in droves despite terrible economy and owner rewards them by signing a star. That’s how it’s supposed to work.”
IAPiratesFan - January 24, 2012
Someone needs to tell Perrotto
That Prince Fielder probably wouldn’t have signed in Pittsburgh if they offered him $300 million instead of $214m
SLucas22 - January 24, 2012
$214 and free Primanti's for life
That does it.
SuperBaes - January 24, 2012
i think he is a vegan
karreemofwheat - January 24, 2012
LOL
karreemofwheat - January 24, 2012
No no no
He ATE a vegan.
cocktailsfor2 - January 24, 2012
since 2008 vegetarian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Fielder
karreemofwheat - January 24, 2012
LMFAO
karreemofwheat - January 24, 2012
Actually...
there was an interview in ESPN The Magazine a couple of months ago where Fielder was quoted that he was no longer a vegetarian, that it was too hard to adhere to during the season.
Thunder - January 24, 2012
C.C. Sabathia on the Cap'n Crunch diet
Why do fat MLB players do weird things?
SuperBaes - January 24, 2012
Doughnuts and beer and candy bars are vegetarian, right?
IAPiratesFan - January 25, 2012
i lol'ed
karreemofwheat - January 25, 2012
Depends on what kind of fat/oil the doughnuts are fried in. ;-)
Thunder - January 25, 2012
They have vegetarian options. Vegan, maybe not, but vegetarian.
thecheeseisblue - January 25, 2012
John Perrotto is a moron
According to Forbes’ report from last March, the Pirates had the third lowest total revenue in all of baseball at $160M. This figure includes all of the money the team got from MLB’s revenue sharing policy. The Tigers’ total revenue was 20% higher than the Pirates’. Not only that, Tigers owner Mike Ilitch is one of the richest owners in sports.
KentuckyPirate - January 24, 2012
yep
and the pirates are also the least valuable MLB team too.
white angus - January 24, 2012
Perrotto is NOT a moron
A shameless panderer to the “minions of Smizik” but not a moron. He is content to spin a narrative that he knows will appeal to a certain segment of the fan-base. He does this because he brings nothing to the table that will appeal to the more thoughtful and realistic segment of Pirate fans.
Basically he jockeying for the position of “Pittsburgh Sports Curmudgeon In Waiting”
Good luck beating Paul Zeise out for that one.
Pagliaroni - January 24, 2012
I don’t think you need to append “In Waiting” to Zeise for this.
Schide - January 24, 2012
Was thinking
that Smiz was still THE Curmudgeon but you are right Zeise holds the position and Bob-o is now “Curmudegeon Emeritus”
Pagliaroni - January 24, 2012
Perrotto:
cocktailsfor2 - January 24, 2012
No one shows up in droves to read John Perrotto and yet he still is allowed to tweet.
Brakeman8 - January 24, 2012
Hey Perrotto
If you’re reading this…….
FUCK OFF
BadAndy - January 24, 2012 via mobile
How are we supposed to come with with over $20 million a year to sign him?
And if we did he still would want to come here, which he wouldn’t. God i’m really getting sick of these strawman agruments regarding the Pirates. There becoming real tiresome and pointless.
Bradley James McEachern - January 24, 2012
Oh you guys lay off Perrotto
CO_Bucs - January 24, 2012
tell Perotto's employer this and you have a deal
white angus - January 25, 2012
Haha
Nice one
CO_Bucs - January 25, 2012
2011 Detroit Tigers attendance: 2.642M (6th in the AL)
2011 Pittsburgh Pirates attendance: 1.94M (15th in the NL)
And of course, the Pirates’ average ticket price in 2011 was $15.30, the lowest figure in MLB, while the Tigers’ average was considerably higher, so even that 700,000 fan difference significantly understates the revenue gap between the two franchises.
Vlad - January 25, 2012
But but but...
that doesn’t align with a viewpoint that gets pageviews!
mattygabe - January 25, 2012
You mean all droves are not created equal?
WTM - January 25, 2012
I’m not sure the Nats wanted him that badly. They’ve got Morse/LaRoche and no DH. They also need money to extend Zimmerman and find a CF.
I wonder if they throw their money at Cespedes now.
Mr. E - January 24, 2012
Yeah, they did. Everybody in MLB thought they were the frontrunner from day one and Rizzo never denied it. People here (DC) really thought the Nats would get him.
WTM - January 24, 2012
I saw stories today that said the Nats may look to add an OF so they can move Morse back to 1B. They could deal Desmond and move Espinosa to SS and bring up Lombardozzi to play 2B.
Brakeman8 - January 24, 2012
So, because fans thought they would get him and media thought they were the favorite, the FO wanted him really badly? All of the hype was based off every other team not wanting him, not the Nationals desire to get him. If they really wanted him they would have met his price a month ago and he’d be a Nat.
Mr. E - January 25, 2012
MLBTR has had numerous reports that the Nats were hot after Fielder.
It’s also had reports that Boras wasn’t naming a price. His tactic is always to try to create a bidding war. It’s not nearly as simple as you seem to think.
WTM - January 25, 2012
scott swain tweeted multiple times it was a done deal
that fielder was on a plane to dc for his physical.
karreemofwheat - January 25, 2012
Maybe it's true
Maybe the Nats couldn’t find a way to distract Fielder so that Hannibal could slip the knock out drops into his milk, no matter what kind of wacky antics Murdock perpetrated. Detroit, meanwhile, was a reasonably short van ride away.
Aphthakid - January 25, 2012
Maybe he was
but it’s completely irrelevant to what WTM is arguing.
Mr. E - January 25, 2012
No, it’s not if it shows at least that they were deep in discussions.
Your argument is basically, Any team that really wants to sign a guy will sign him, so if they don’t sign him that shows they didn’t really want to. And that’s nonsense.
WTM - January 25, 2012
Well, that or…
Vlad - January 25, 2012
Your argument is basically, any team that is interested in signing a player, REALLY wants that player. And that’s nonsense.
I never once said they didn’t want him to some degree, which I already corrected you on so not sure why you are still saying that.
Mr. E - January 26, 2012
I never said they didn't want him to some degree
but they were never the favorite until the field got whittled down to basically Washington and ?? I guess Texas and apparently a mystery team. Miami, Chicago and Seattle were all ahead of Washington before they saw the asking price and moved on.
Just looking at the facts. 1) They have at least 2 capable 1B for 2012. 2) They have the money to sign Prince 3) They didn’t sign Prince
It’s way simpler than you seem to think.
Mr. E - January 25, 2012
I had no idea Lerner was that rich
At the same time owners aren’t usually willing to lose money on a continual basis (by losing money I mean having the franchise’s capital appreciation be less than a negative cash burn). Still, his wealth is extremely impressive.
Kosstic518 - January 24, 2012
True. I just brought it up because so many fans continue to believe, incorrectly, that if the Pirates had a wealthier owner they’d have a far higher payroll.
WTM - January 24, 2012
Tell that to Smizik and Perrotto
But yeah I agree just because a really rich owner buys the team dosen’t mean that they’ll spend oodles of dollars because its out of the goodness of his heart. They’ll only spend within the market there in.
Bradley James McEachern - January 24, 2012
Spoken like a group of people who’ve never heard of Carl Pohlad.
Vlad - January 25, 2012
I just woke up...
but I still LOL’d for real.
tobynotjason - January 25, 2012
Doug Melvin
has a new theme song.
cocktailsfor2 - January 24, 2012
Tigers’ answer to replacing Victor Martinez should come from within
What a terrible day to publish that article. Not that it’s misinformed or misguided… just unfortunate timing.
SuperBaes - January 24, 2012
I've been reading that Miggy is going to play third
which i find impossible to believe. These reporters are asking him questions about it but maybe he’s f’n wasted or something
Mingy - January 24, 2012
Prince Fielder
Is almost as rotund as John Perrotto
Batavia - January 24, 2012
the freak signs 2 year deal 40.5 mil
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/1/17/2715213/tim-lincecum-giants-arbitration-salary
karreemofwheat - January 24, 2012
If Cabrera plays third base...
it’s going to be bunt city in the AL Central. Gardenhire will be in smallball heaven… and he’ll actually be doing the right thing on occasion.
tobynotjason - January 24, 2012
We play the Tigers six times.
Clint’s salivating.
Nate Wilder - January 24, 2012
Oh my. Miggy at third.
http://www.liderendeportes.com/Noticias/Beisbol/Miguel-Cabrera—-Volvere-a-tercera-base-.aspx
tobynotjason - January 24, 2012
Fantasy
boost! Not for me :(
McCutchenIsTheTruth - January 24, 2012
The price of Little Caesar’s pizza is going to go up a ton to help Illitch pay Fielder.
Suffering Buc - January 24, 2012
$2,505 Hot and Ready?
KentuckyPirate - January 24, 2012
well, didn't see this coming
I sincerely hope that Fielder is successful as a Tiger (except for the 6 games we play against the Tigers this year, of course), if only in the interest of Jim Leyland’s overall health
gonfalon - January 24, 2012
Michigan's "no smoking in public workplaces" law
has already taken a huge toll on Leyland’s health: those cigarettes were preserving him.
SuperBaes - January 24, 2012
Replace Bonds with Fielder in this picture....could shape up to be quite a spring training for the Tigers.
impliedi - January 24, 2012
Just read that Peter Gammons was the one to tell Leyland about the Fielder signing (as he knew nothing about it).
Yikes. So much for keeping your manager in the loop.
impliedi - January 24, 2012
eh, does Leyland really need to know in January?
white angus - January 24, 2012
Probably wanted to avoid
another episode of Jim sobbing uncontrollably.
I know. That was a cheapshot. I really like Leyland but the guy must have spigots behind his eyeballs.
Pagliaroni - January 24, 2012
And just 18 years later, he would be $200 million+ richer.....
impliedi - January 24, 2012
Even in that picture
he still looks like he would be a good bet to go yard against the Bucs.
Pagliaroni - January 24, 2012
At that age, he was a better power hitter than any Pirate in the last 19 years.
BarryJT - January 24, 2012
so are the reds going to be the only team
in the NL central with a winning record this year?
bbautista24 - January 24, 2012
Milwaukee and St. Louis are definitely going to compete for the division. Each only lost one significant player, and Adam Wainwright will return to the Cardinals. I would guess that Cincinnati finishes second and possibly takes the wild card, but I think fans are greatly overestimating what this means for the division–especially for the Pirates.
Kidspud - January 24, 2012
Thats 2 losses for the brewers
If u count lloyd braun for 50 games
tbote123 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
And don't forget Casey McGehee
They’re screwed.
Jitterbug - January 24, 2012
And Beltran. If he pulls a Berkman the Cards might win another title. Brewers probably losing their setup man too since they traded for Veras.
Mr. E - January 24, 2012
Honestly, I’d be more concerned about Berkman pulling another Berkman than I would Beltran doing so. Both are going to be on the wrong side of 35 for the most of next season, so it’s going to be difficult for them to repeat their ~5 WAR seasons again.
Also worth considering is that the Cards lost LaRussa. I know managers tend not to impact team performance, but I wouldn’t be surprised if his loss is felt to a small degree.
Kidspud - January 24, 2012
less money for the local bar scene would be the best case scenario
white angus - January 25, 2012
disagree about Pujols
he’s god enough to not only impact a game, but also affect how hitters around him are pitched to. With him gone I see a very average line-up. And I think Fielder had a lot to do with the macho-cockiness of the Brewers; with that gone, who knows ? It will be an interesting season.
michaelbro8 - January 24, 2012
correction needed ?
I was going to correct “god” to “good”, but then realized the first applied better :)
michaelbro8 - January 24, 2012
And I think Fielder had a lot to do with the macho-cockiness of the Brewers
That and T-Plush.
Bradley James McEachern - January 24, 2012
The Brewers were that way long before T-Plush showed up.
Thunder - January 24, 2012
Yeah but he helped enhance the cockiness
Can’t deny that.
Bradley James McEachern - January 24, 2012
Why wouldn’t the Cards and Brewers have winning records?
Adam Reynolds - January 24, 2012 via mobile
IMO
the reds had the best overall team in the division last year and they finished third. Cards and Brewers lose best firstbaseman 1 and 1A. thats a lot of lost wins plus no Braun for 50, Brewers could have a big deficit to climb once those 50 are over. and the Cards? Berkamn and Beltran are old, on the verge of getting really old for baseball and Beltran has an extensive injury history. Just thinking that the Central could be the worst division in baseball next year.
bbautista24 - January 24, 2012
i have no doubt that the NLC will be the worst division
that’s why i have hope that the Pirates will have a somewhat exciting year
theatrain - January 24, 2012
sadly i have a sick feeling
that we are still looking at 4th place, more than likely 5th.
bbautista24 - January 24, 2012
Otherwise known as
realism-induced naseau.
Pagliaroni - January 24, 2012
A.K.A.
The life of a Pirates fan.
bbautista24 - January 24, 2012
optimist / pessimist
The difference between an optimist and a pessimist is that an optimist thinks this is the best possible world; a pessimist fears that is true.
michaelbro8 - January 24, 2012
You forgot about the Pirates!!!!
SuperBaes - January 24, 2012
Wow. I’d have guessed 7/$150…
Adam Reynolds - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Sooo do the pirates still have a team?
Theyve beeen very quiet lately and alot, of moves were made today gimme an nri at least
tbote123 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
Give the devil his due
Boras sure is good at what he does. Nine years? $214 mil?
Yeesh.
Pagliaroni - January 24, 2012
Scott Bora$$ is the devil alright
BadAndy - January 24, 2012 via mobile
The future of baseball !
“What you’ll find is that the window for a small-market team will grow smaller and eventually go away completely. Eventually, it becomes like Premier League soccer, where the teams that spend the most money are the teams that win every year. They’ll all come from the top quartile in payroll.”
-Billy Beane
michaelbro8 - January 24, 2012
Exactly
Don’t get me wrong, I love the Premier League (Manchester United fan) but I do hate that only a handful of teams are able to compete for the title and other trophies every year (Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal) and the rest of the league is fighting to just stay in the league because they’ll never have the finances to compete for signing the top players.
Basically if your a fan of the other PL teams like West Bromwich Albion, Wolverhampton Wanders, Sunderland or Fulham, all your wishing your team can do is to finish with a decent showing in the table and the other tourneys and stay in the league because your fanbase would rather fight to stay in top flight football to see your club compete with the big boys then to get relegated to the Championship (2nd division of English football) and lost all the money your club recieves from being in the top division of football.
See where i’m going with this?
I wonder if the Pirates were a PL team which would we be? I want to say Blackburn Rovers but since our manager isn’t a idiot I don’t think the comparison would be good.
Bradley James McEachern - January 24, 2012
QPR?
or Norwich?
McCutchenIsTheTruth - January 24, 2012
I’d like to say Bolton, but probably Grimsby.
bolton - January 24, 2012
Certainly not two teams you mentioned
QPR because they have a owner who has money to burn (Tony Fernandes) and although Norwich dosen’t have a fantastic squad by any means, they have the coaching and players necessary to be scrappy and work hard to get points. Pirate players anymore sand a couple of players seem just to play for a paycheck.
Bolton could be a good example, but although I said it would be a good comparison, I keep coming back to Blackburn. like the Pirates they have shitty ownership, average attendance and a team with only a handful of good players (Yakubu, Chris Samba and Junior Hoiliett). Wigan could also be a good example but they have good ownership with Dave Whelan at the helm (even though he is a frugal owner).
Bradley James McEachern - January 24, 2012
whats up with the futbol shit?
but since its brought up, i wonder what Renaudo’s UZR was last year?
white angus - January 25, 2012
I brought up futbol
Because Billy Beane said with how teams are doleing out money for FA’s, the MLB is slowly turning into the Premier League. That’s how it got brought up.
Bradley James McEachern - January 25, 2012
good points...
if MLB was set up for a 2 tiered relegation league, do you think this would impact the games popularity (one way or the other ) ?
michaelbro8 - January 24, 2012
I don't think it will
Because the teams the majority of MLB fans watch on TV (Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers etc) would never be bad enough to be relegated. The teams that would always be near the relegated zone (Pirates, Royals Orioles etc) are teams that MLB fans wouldn’t cry about if we went away.
Bradley James McEachern - January 24, 2012
I see this and read "Don't get me wrong, I love the Major League of American Baseball (New York Yankees fan)..."
Man City didn’t compete for jackshit for eons until the recent $$ infusion. It’s funny that you mention Fulham, who are in the Premiership precisely because of a money mark buying them. They t’weren’t bupkis before that. I haven’t followed for many years and also find it bizarre that Wolves and West Brom are even up.
tobynotjason - January 24, 2012
Man you sound angry by the way the post is written
Sorry if you don’t like that i’m a United but i’m a red devil through and through, been that way since I was a kid. Love the coach, the players and the rich tradition it carries. I guess you think because i’m from a small market I should follow a team like Stoke. Nope.
Yeah I know that Man City was a frugal team before Shiek Mansour bought the team in 2008. Before Man City won the FA Cup in 2011 they went 30 some years without winning a single trophy and at one point the team was in the abyss so bad that it went from being in the PL to at one point getting relegated to the 3rd division of English football.
I know Mohammed Al-Fayed since buying Fulham have put a decent amount of money into the club and its because of him that Fulham is in the PL, but its never never going to be enough for them to actually win the league. Hell with City 800 million have been pumped into the club since ’08 and all they have to show for it so far is a FA Cup.
West Brom and Wolves stay up is the same reason Wigan stays up: They eak out points. Neither of the three teams I mentioned have fantastic players, but the players are well enough to stay in the PL and all three teams have coaches that are good enough to keep a bottom table afloat.
Bradley James McEachern - January 24, 2012
Yeah, well, I LOATHE Manyoo. More than I loathe any team in any other team sport on earth.
Perhaps you should examine the implications of the sentence “been that way since I was a kid” as regards picking an team to support in a foreign team sport with limited domestic exposure (VERY limited assuming you aren’t 22 or something). ;)
I remember City in the 2nd division very well – I probably followed football more closely that year (’98) than any other. I actually bought a subscription to West Ham internet radio play-by-play that year with a dial-up modem. No wait, maybe that was the season after they came up to 1st Division… ’99.
tobynotjason - January 25, 2012
Yeah, well, I LOATHE Manyoo. More than I loathe any team in any other team sport on earth.
I’m sorry you feel that way, I really am. And I don’t need to examine any of my comments.
Bradley James McEachern - January 26, 2012
Great pix-1st time I have seen a guy scoring from 1st!
Pix is reversed. Fielder looks like he is coming down the 1st baseline!
Anyway, another FA signs where he can win a title and get big bucks!
zogger - January 24, 2012
naw
just avoiding the tag
BlindSquirrel - January 24, 2012
Both wrong
He dropped his cheeseburger when he too off for first base. Just going back to get it.
Brakeman8 - January 24, 2012
you can tell it's not reversed
because of the “Bucco Blasts” sign visible on the wall, which is in PNC’s RF.
(Also, you can see which side of the line the base is on).
I remember this play. Fielder tried to bowl Kratzy over but he held onto it.
Garrett122 - January 24, 2012
only chance we'll get to see Prince wearing a Bucco helmet
WHYG Zane Smith - January 24, 2012
this is the play fielder threw a forearm shiver at katz
he should of been suspended.
karreemofwheat - January 25, 2012
it wasnt that dirty of a play. because it was fielder, people got pissed off about it.
but fielder got the worst of it and kratz got on ESPN. no worries.
white angus - January 25, 2012
i saw it and i played the game
fielder threw a forearm. just because it did not inflict damage, does’t justify fielder for throwing it. they charge the mound for less.
karreemofwheat - January 25, 2012
we discussed in a previous thread
my status as an allstar ss in tee ball. i’m still looking for my cleats.
karreemofwheat - January 25, 2012
Out of the
NL Central. All I care about. This is really a perfect storm. This all puts one of the leading contenders for Cespedes out of the market (probably). That’s both good and bad. Means the Cubs could get them, but maybe us.
On the perfect storm though, I more mean how wide open the Central is becoming from say 2014-2016 or 17
Astros – Gone
Brewers – Prince gone. Braun older. Unlikely they can keep all four of Weeks, Gallardo, Marcum, and Greinke and they have an awful awful farm system.
Cubs – Hopefully still rebuilding. If they can’t get a guy like Cesepedes or Solar, the Cubs could still be rebuilding. Remember, IIRC, the Cubs still have to give up assets for Theo and Hoyer.
Cardinals – One of our main competitors most likely. Pujols is gone, Wainwright’s health is uncertain, and Holliday, Berkman, and Beltran are all old. They traded away Rasmus, their best chance at an impact hitter that will be around for years. They have great pitching in their farm system, but are shallow in-terms of young, impact bats.
Reds – Also another main competitor. Alot depends on if they can keep Votto. Even if they can, they are weak on pitching, gutted their farm system a bit trading for Latos and Marshall, and may not be able to hold onto Latos in a few years.
McCutchenIsTheTruth - January 24, 2012
Remember, the Cubs actually have a real general manager now, and the funding to go with it. If you think that Epstein will still be rebuilding in 3 years…
Thunder - January 24, 2012
No
major free agents, at least none like Pujols or Fielder, on the market soon, and serious restrictions on the draft now. It’s not gonna be an overnight thing. Plus I don’t think Theo walks on water like most do.
McCutchenIsTheTruth - January 24, 2012
Cubs have never really been a team to rebuild through the draft. And the Red Sox weren’t either.
Thunder - January 24, 2012
No the Cubs haven't, but the Red Sox core
came thru the draft. Guys like Youk, Pedroia, Lester, Bucholz, Ellsbury, etc came up and starred or their farm system netted them other building blocks like Beckett. Their biggest gaffes were in free agency, not their farm system. But yes, the Sox were already good when all those players started coming up…Cubs are in a much different situation.
NastyNate82 - January 24, 2012
Not to mention the value that Epstein got for his prospects. I’m not his biggest fan, but he’s used the Boston-Yankees prospect hype machine to perfection.
SuperBaes - January 25, 2012
Yes...
I believe the only big player he gave up of consequence (and its a big one) was Hanley.
NastyNate82 - January 25, 2012
Actually he never gave up Hanley Ramirez
If you remember when the Red Sox acquired Mike Lowell from Florida that’s when Epstein took a leave a abstance from the team and the trade was made by Ben Cherrington, Jed Hoyer and some other guy.
Bradley James McEachern - January 25, 2012
Right, good catch...
NastyNate82 - January 26, 2012
My buddy, Typical Loudmouth Red Sox Fan
constantly says this. Granted, without Beckett and Lowell, they never win in 2007. Apparently, breaking the curse meant that WS titles mean nothing anymore. I’d happily sign off on stripping the cupboards mostly bare if it guaranteed a 2012 championship…and I have the Steelers and Pens winning chamionships for my city.
SuperBaes - January 26, 2012
This
Couldn’t agree more with that statement Cutch.
Bradley James McEachern - January 24, 2012
Except guys like Hamels, Cain, Greinke, and friends. The Cubs will probably be our main rival over the next 7 years. Reds and Cards will not be pushovers either.
Mr. E - January 25, 2012
Cespedes
10 k in35 ab thats enough of a sample size for me o ya and hes 26 id rate him as our 6th best outfielder in the system
tbote123 - January 24, 2012 via mobile
LOL
Kosstic518 - January 24, 2012
brilliant!
i truly feel like next year 2013 and 2014 are OUR years. we will win the division one of the two. 2015 is too hard to see that far into the future
Mingy - January 25, 2012
Pirates 2012 Opening Day payroll…~$45M
Tigers 2012 Opening Day payroll…~$130M
Thunder - January 24, 2012
Yes,
and…..?
cocktailsfor2 - January 24, 2012
Just making a statement. People can draw whatever conclusions they choose to.
Thunder - January 24, 2012
My conclusion is that the Tigers 2017 opening day payroll is likely going to be much higher than it should be.
Justin Mos - January 24, 2012
That Nutting is cheap and we should of signed Maholm?
I don’t know but I feel that’s what your getting at.
Bradley James McEachern - January 24, 2012
That
Nutting should stop lighting his cigars with $100 bills and switch to $50’s?
Pagliaroni - January 24, 2012
he wipes his tuckus with the $50's
definately dont want to light them.
white angus - January 25, 2012
Pirates 2012 Opening Day payroll… $500M
Tigers 2012 Opening Day payroll…$130m
I can make up pointless “statements” too.
*neither my nor thunder’s numbers are actual facts.
Mr. E - January 25, 2012
Mine was a whole lot closer to being a fact than yours.
Thunder - January 25, 2012
Thunder on opening day...
white angus - January 25, 2012
haha yes
Mingy - January 25, 2012
Sums up my thoughts pretty well.
Bradley James McEachern - January 25, 2012
All of us on June 1
WTM - January 25, 2012
That will never be me
I look out of place with overalls on.
Bradley James McEachern - January 25, 2012
Someday when I have the time to develop some semblance of photoshop skills, I’m going to paste the faces of Nutting, Coonelly, NH and Hurdle into that pic.
WTM - January 25, 2012
in order:
NH, Hurdle, Nutt, Coony… and have Tabata laying there instead of the hound.
white angus - January 25, 2012
Nah. Smizik.
WTM - January 25, 2012
Zing!
But IMO that’d work better if the picture was of a horse… you’d know where to photoshop the face.
cocktailsfor2 - January 25, 2012
I said Tabata because hes the only pirate locked down for years... put a leash on him too
plus I wouldnt lump in Smizik with those guys. thats just cruel.
white angus - January 26, 2012
Yeah.
And usually by June 1st it’s too hot out to be wearing overalls.
I prefer pants.
IAPiratesFan - January 25, 2012
When do minicamps start for NFL?
Mr. E - January 25, 2012
he is the song that goes with the picture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ5ob9B9yD4
karreemofwheat - January 25, 2012
Gloom, despair and agony on me.
Nineteen years of darkness, how much longer can it be?
If it weren’t for Andrew we’d have no team at all.
Gloom, despair and agony on me.
WTM - January 25, 2012
0hhh
karreemofwheat - January 25, 2012
thats me now!
buy june 1, the cider will be plenty hard.
karreemofwheat - January 25, 2012
"the cider"
…so that’s what the kids are calling it these days, eh?
cocktailsfor2 - January 25, 2012
Can I borrow your crystal ball?
Mr. E - January 25, 2012
over / under on Fielder being healthy & productive __x__years from now ?
I say 3
michaelbro8 - January 24, 2012
I'll give him 5 to 7.
Let’s not forget this guy can play 160 games a season and still perform. His decline may not be so severe as a DH.
He’s strong, can move with agility for how big the guy is, and even if he keeps playing first he’s not exactly a defensive liability.
Still, he’ll most likely be a shell of his current self in the last few years of the contract.
Nate Wilder - January 24, 2012
no opt outs
they will rue the day. RUE THE DAY
Mingy - January 24, 2012
He is most DEFINITELY a defensive liability at first. He has 1 positive UZR through his defensive prime. What’s great is that he adds quite a bit of value if you only DH him.
Mr. E - January 25, 2012
Absolutely, look at David Ortiz for proof.
Bradley James McEachern - January 25, 2012
plus Fielder is a 'stats first" kind of dewshbag
he’ll be putting up numbers at his teammates expense for years to come… will be wonderful to see whom is the alphadog in detroit once cabrera feels threatened.
white angus - January 25, 2012
How in the world
do you put up stats at the expense of your teammates in baseball? I can see it in other sports, but he can’t just take someone else’s AB. I have no idea what you are talking about. The only stat that even remotely makes sense for this arguement is RBI, and that is pretty shaky.
Wizard of Woz - January 25, 2012
tell you what...
the next time that Fielder bunts to 3B on a shift, then i’ll take back what I said.
mmmkay?
white angus - January 25, 2012
So...
does that mean Ted Williams was a “stats first” dewshbag too? You know, since he didn’t bunt against the shift either…
NastyNate82 - January 25, 2012
yes
ted williams, as great a hitter as he was, dewshy.
anyway, i have not idea if fielder is truly that way. i just like talking shit about him, and not the easy “fat ass vegan” stuff.
white angus - January 26, 2012
I think you can argue that it’s actually one of the main reasons he was as great as he was.
Vlad - January 26, 2012
i agree
how many world series did he win again???
white angus - January 26, 2012
None, but he did win two wars, which is pretty good.
Vlad - January 27, 2012
DiMaggio was dewshy (by the way, I like this spelling of the word so much better as well) too and he went to 10 World Series. I think dewshness crosses winning and losing.
But you’re not alone in saying that about Williams though; you should see some of the stuff that was written about him in the press back then. Might be borderline libelous today.
I’d still probably take him over Joe D as a player.
NastyNate82 - January 26, 2012
Pirates vs. Tigers payrolls
Thunder, how much would you like to bet that the Tigers don’t get 3x the number of wins than the Pirates for the 3x payroll??
impliedi - January 25, 2012 via mobile
I'd say 6
I think people are just looking too much at the contract itself. Of course its ridiculous to pay a large man (who will likely get massier) over the course of the contract that type of money. But look at their division. The Tigers have, probably the 3 best players in that division on their team…they have 4 of the top 5 players in WAR from last year in the AL Central (the only other one is Alex Gordon). If Jacob Turner turns into a good #2 (which many think he can do) they could dominate that division for 5-6 years. If he doesn’t, they’ll still likely win that division almost every year. And if you’re in the playoffs every year for 5-6 years in a row, thats not really overpaying on that. If they win 2 titles and make the playoffs 6 times, say, 6 times in Prince’s time in Detroit…thats probably worth it.
NastyNate82 - January 24, 2012
+1
Easily worth it.
McCutchenIsTheTruth - January 25, 2012
How is "early decline written all over him"?
Is it the skills decline based on an assumption of getting larger?
Because I don’t see it in his stats, although you could probably make an argument using comparables.
Also, with a guy like Fielder, it doesn’t matter if you’re paying him $10 M or $25 M. There is no overpaying. WAR doesn’t matter. Maybe in a salary cap paradigm, but not here.
CO_Bucs - January 24, 2012
Defense will let them down
Cant imagine Miggys fat ass at third and Peralta has no range at short. Sorry to Tigers fans but this doesnt put them ahead of Texas or the Yankees, even Tampa and Boston are still ahead of them
GO_BUCS - January 25, 2012
They can always “hide” Cabrera in a corner OF spot if he can’t handle 3B.
Thunder - January 25, 2012
The best "commentary" I've heard
has got to be John Kruk on ESPN. His opinion is that Fielder was the best player available (debatable I suppose.) and that his deal was a great one! I’ll give it three-four years at best before this is talked about with the Alfonso Soriano deal as huge mistakes. If you ask me, it’s an overpay next year, let alone 8 years from now.
glass0941 - January 25, 2012
Everyone blasts the Soriano contract now
I don’t remember what people said when he signed it though…he used to be a tremendous power/speed combo, but leg injuries sapped his speed and age basically did the rest. Too bad, he was a very fun (and flawed) player for several years.
NastyNate82 - January 25, 2012
"I don’t remember what people said when he signed it though"
I remember exactly what I said:
.
“AHHHH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!”
Then I stopped to wipe away the tears.
Then: “AHHHH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !!!!!!”
cocktailsfor2 - January 25, 2012
Back of the napkin calculations
Give me that they are paying for about 6 wins this coming year for Fielder, with a .5 yearly aging decrease and 5% increase (using Tango’s method). He was at 5.5 last year, with the previous years at 3.4 and 6.4. Using a simple 3/4/5 weighting projects him at about 5 wins, even next year. Detroit is betting that he will reverse his trend, and age like a normal baseball player, though his body type would tend to indicate otherwise. I feel like this is a severe overpay, and a really bad contract. Yuck.
Wizard of Woz - January 25, 2012
It depends...
if they win a couple of titles and dominate the division for 5 years in a row (odds are pretty good they’ll be there for that long with Prince, Cabrera, Verlander and a pretty solid supporting cast) and make the playoffs for about that long, then…yeah, I’d say it is worth it.
NastyNate82 - January 25, 2012
Well
The Dunkin Donuts franchises of Detroit are celebrating
glass0941 - January 25, 2012
stock in little caesars just plummeted
but surprisingly, the supply of vegetables has not.
white angus - January 25, 2012
why ?
pizza is vegetarian w/o pepp,saus, bacon, meat ball, etc……
karreemofwheat - January 25, 2012
Now only $129.99
cocktailsfor2 - January 25, 2012
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