More on the potential A.J. Burnett trade, from Jon Heyman:
word is, #pirates willing to pay $10M of aj's $33M. #yankees have been pushing for something closer to a 50-50 split ...
#yanks also seek ok prospect back, which pirates hadnt agreed to. still, despite the differences, decent chance to happen
We'll see what "ok prospect" means. If it's an Aaron Baker or Brooks Pounders type of prospect, that's fine with me. Also, expecting the Pirates to take on $16.5 million for a player with Burnett's current trade value is quite a lot. $10 million is reasonable.
0 recs | 148 comments
Feels like a "save face"
type move for the Yankees, no? Just something to spin as an acquisition.
Wizard of Woz - February 10, 2012
Isn't that usually the case?
Since most prospects never play in the majors.
Roberto - February 10, 2012
Tim Alderson?
“Former 1st round pick and top 50 prospect!” yankswinagain
Mr. E - February 10, 2012
I might do Burnett and $27 million for Bryan Morris.
The better the prospect, the more money should come our way.
Suffering Buc - February 10, 2012
10.5 and jordy mercer
im feelin’ this one, yo
white angus - February 10, 2012
stop it angus. not my birth bro
Mingy - February 10, 2012
would rather give D’Arnaud anyway
Mingy - February 10, 2012
I really could see d'Arnaud going..
…he pretty much defines the term “ok prospect.”
Besides, with Barmes, Navarro, Nunez & Mercer knocking around the bigs/AAA, he’s been made pretty much superfluous I would think.
Raybin - February 10, 2012
d'Arnaud isn't going anywhere.
Management seems high on him, where as Mercer isn’t as defensively sound, and there are a few similar type SS in the lower levels.
Nate Wilder - February 10, 2012
what about Brock Holt?
we do have about 54 INFs in the upper levels.
BadAndy - February 10, 2012
I think Holt's better than Mercer.
Strictly my opinion though.
Nate Wilder - February 10, 2012
But none of them are any good.
BarryJT - February 10, 2012
Hmm
The knock on Mercer is contact. I’ve seen nothing to indicate that he’s not a very capable SS. None of those lower level players have shown the kind of power he has. If I may quote John Sickels
Roberto - February 10, 2012
It's my understanding that d'Arnaud is better defensively.
That said, it’s a frightening thing to think.
Nate Wilder - February 10, 2012
The feeling I get is Mercer is more steady while D’Arnaud is flashier. Watching D’Arnaud play last year it was easy to see he had the range and arm but he needs the game to slow down for him because he made way too many errors.
Mr. E - February 10, 2012
Mercer has been touted
as being the closest defensively out of the upper level guys
patient pirate - February 10, 2012
Well then shit, I'm wrong.
If that’s the case, hold onto him. We have enough hit for average guys in the OF with little pop. Keep the SS that can do it.
Nate Wilder - February 10, 2012
almost everyone on here says that the pirates should only give up a "meh" prospect in this deal...
well, judging by the top prospects lists that have come out, Mercer is “meh”
white angus - February 10, 2012
When I think meh, I think Lambo.
Nate Wilder - February 10, 2012
you mean meth not meh
SLR - February 10, 2012
Hiiiiyooooo.
Nate Wilder - February 10, 2012
now thats good comedy
karreemofwheat - February 10, 2012
yes, but for some reason not one single scouting outlet thinks highly of him
white angus - February 10, 2012
Could be he's 25.
I mean 25 is still young, but 25 sounds a hell of a lot older than 23 or 24.
Nate Wilder - February 10, 2012
hey
we were born on the exact same day. Being 25 does not mean you’re old. I still party
Mingy - February 10, 2012
As someone about to turn 25, I hate being called old already. But I have noticed that 21 and 22 year olds have become a bit more annoying. Even at parties.
blackjackfishtaco - February 10, 2012
I’m 28 now and just thinking about it makes me feel old as shit. Wish I could go back to 25 :)
pskell02 - February 10, 2012
when my son was a jr in college
he told me how sad he felt for the frat guys who’d graduated who came back for parties. he’s 28 now and he’s never set foot back on the campus where he was a pretty good a-t-a-lete (well, if you consider track being athletic)
I told him to wait til he was rooting for pro players younger than him. We just re-hashed that convo a week ago during superbowl weekend. Getting older is a beyotch for everyone, not just for us 61-year-young’uns (h/t bob prince).
mocasdad - February 10, 2012
Yep
25 is ooooold. Probably needs a hearing aid.
Mercer is so old, his Little League Coach was Honus Wagner.
He’s so old, he used to play rock paper scissors with 3 Finger Brown.
Old Hoss Radbourn calls him Gramps.
JRoth95 - February 10, 2012
3 Finger Brown was crap at Rock Paper Scissors
He could only ever do “scissors.”
WHYG Zane Smith - February 10, 2012
What about rock?
Rubble44 - February 11, 2012
I wish I was 25
especially when i’m stuck in a college town for probably the rest of my life lol
BadAndy - February 10, 2012
one mans trash is another mans treasure.
we are short on ss, thus we value him higher.
karreemofwheat - February 10, 2012
not good enough reason
that would mean that eric fryer is off limits because we’re not exactly swimming in catching prospects
white angus - February 10, 2012
after last year it might,
course we signed all kinds of catchers, including matt pagnozzi.
karreemofwheat - February 10, 2012
Mercer is better defensively, alot better
BigB2323 - February 10, 2012
I'd say 'wait'
The more the Bucs delay on this the better. The Yanks appear a bit desperate here ; I guess no other teams showing interest
michaelbro8 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
If Cashman offers one penny less than $25MM...
….then, to me, he has to settle for a Victor Black/Andrew Lambo-esque busted prospect.
If they’ll go $25MM+, then they can get a Tyler Glasnow/Evan Chambers type.
Raybin - February 10, 2012
Have I told you lately...
that you’re correct?
JRoth95 - February 10, 2012
Maybe the best way of putting it.
Suffering Buc - February 10, 2012
I have better odds with my lotto ticket as
the Yankees have with getting this.
Cheap Beer - February 10, 2012
i would go $12 if ...
they also gave us Brandon Laird
patient pirate - February 10, 2012
Rudy Owens??
He has put up good numbers up until last year but I don’t see much of a future with him for the Pirates. He might be valued enough that we could get burnett for around 5 million a year. I am not worried too much about the prospect we turn over to the Yankees. We wont give them a top ten prospect and after that we have so much pitching depth it would be fine to give up some. Also after our top ten, we don’t have a ton of position players that would mean too much if they left. If I were NH I would go to them with 4 or 5 guys with different numbers attached to them. Jeff Locke and you guys pay the full salary. Rudy Owens and you pay 23 million. Bryan Morris and you pay 22 million. Andrew Lambo and you pay 20 million. Not saying something along those lines and let the Yankees decide what they want and get the deal done.
sidbreamslegs - February 10, 2012
dont know how the “not saying” got in there
sidbreamslegs - February 10, 2012
Rudy Owens and 23 million seems reasonable
BadAndy - February 10, 2012
Rudy is too much imo.
No need to give up more than a C- prospect. If the Pirates absorb $10 million, then I look at the trade this way: Pirates receive Burnett and the Yankees receive C- prospect plus the player they acquire with the $10 million saved (hypothetically someone like Oswalt).
bolton - February 10, 2012
Eric Bedard, Daniel Cabrera, and AJ Burnett
In 2005 this would have been sick.
SLR - February 10, 2012
If you would have approached me in even 2009....
and told me that a Pirates roster would sport D.Lee, Correia, Jones, and Ludwick, I may have peed.
That might be the best “What have you done for me lately?” example I can think of…other that what the Yankees roster might look like this summer.
Nate Wilder - February 10, 2012
give them Lambo and Owens ..
we pay 10mil and get Laird
patient pirate - February 10, 2012
then..
we send Jones to Philly for Blanton and 5mil
patient pirate - February 10, 2012
according to MLBTR
Yanks are saying that absorbing $10M isnt enough. Not sure if that’s with or without a prospect. I think I’d go as high as 12M, and give a C- prospect (maybe Cardenas, the guy we got in the Diaz trade, or the aforementioned Baker for Warren swap)
But that’s about as high as I’d go.
BurgherKing - February 10, 2012
in the 300+ thread someone mentioned the luxury tax and consecutive years.
could this be why?
karreemofwheat - February 10, 2012
could be
i dont know the exact rules pertaining to those or the Yanks current situation, so someone would have to break it down for me, but I’d have expected to hear about it by now if that were it.
BurgherKing - February 10, 2012
Been Reading your comments,
As most of you know, the luxury tax threshold will increase in the near future, but any team that is able to get under the 189 million mark from 2014-2016, the yankees will not only not have to pay the luxury tax but will also get what is essentially a refund of $40 million dollars due to the CBA’s new market disqualification revenue sharing program.
Burnett’s contract runs out after the 2013 season, so the Yanks don’t need to trade him, but they do want to get rid of him because he’s taking up a valuable roster spot , is complicating the 5th starter situation and hasn’t been very productive the past two seasons.
PS
Its very, very, very unlikely NY is going to toss in anyone from their top 30 just to get rid of Burnett.
Yankees199 - February 10, 2012
i dont recall anyone
who gave up a prospect to get rid of someone… those just don’t happen…
and yeah, as i posted below, i m sure the Yankees can afford a bit of a financial hit, if need be.
BurgherKing - February 10, 2012
whats the harm in giving up a prospect slightly better? chances are they wont amount to regular big leaguers anyway
like a mercer, a holt, a ferrell… maybe even a Curry?
white angus - February 10, 2012
no they could
but then the money should go down… as in the money the Bucs need to pay him
BurgherKing - February 10, 2012
Why is this even under consideration. 1.2 WAR pitcher for over ten million plus a prospect? I think we already had that in Maholm – who was about double the WAR.
CO_Bucs - February 10, 2012
maybe because Burnett has literally earned twice the, i cant believe im saying this, WAR than maholm has earned
and is only two years removed from being a very good and reliable pitcher
white angus - February 10, 2012
you sabretician you
karreemofwheat - February 10, 2012
But white angus, just because he’s earned twice the WAR in his longer career, doesn’t mean that’s what he’s going to produce going forward. Maholm out-war’d Burrnett (4.1 to 2.9) the last two years, which would probably be an important indicator for an aging pitcher in a possible decline. I think that is pretty obvious.
Gotta love the K/9 though.
CO_Bucs - February 11, 2012
There is also the difference of 1/10 for Paul and 2/10 for Burnett. Paying $5m year >> $10m
Mr. E - February 10, 2012
Good point.
CO_Bucs - February 11, 2012
OK
I’ll go 11 mill and Josh Harrison. Yanks pay the other 22 mill on Burnett.
Brakeman8 - February 10, 2012
10 million
is a steal for Burnett…I would do 12…I don’t get the cause for consideration. At this point just throw them 12 million and a C- prospect and improve your team for 2012. Very good chance Burnett bounces back close to 3 WAR IMO. I see nothing to lose here besides a low prospect.
SLR - February 10, 2012
agreed
should be noted though that we have all the leverage. NH needs to do his job and get them down as low as possible. The Yanks basically HAVE to do this at this point. Probably reason why NH more than likely leaked news that we’re looking at Blanton and Lannan (which we’re prob not) too
Mingy - February 10, 2012
the point isn’t to get a fair deal. WE WANT TO RIP THEM OFF
Mingy - February 10, 2012
yaa
karreemofwheat - February 10, 2012
I’m kind of waiting for some “mystery team” to sweep in and snatch him out from under us. A lifetime as a Pirates fan will make you think this way.
SLR - February 10, 2012
"should be noted though that we have all the leverage"
The fact that these words are being uttered in reference to the Pirates FO should make everyone a little nervous.
SLR - February 10, 2012
yaaa
karreemofwheat - February 10, 2012
FAIL
karreemofwheat - February 10, 2012
Jake at NewBucs is for this trade. Hell froze over.
Nate Wilder - February 10, 2012
Even a clock that doesn’t run is right twice a day.
WTM - February 10, 2012
jake has “inside information” that it’s november eleventyfirst
johnnycuff - February 10, 2012
hahahahaha... awesomeness
white angus - February 10, 2012
that should be a sign
that we shouldnt do it… damn! And i was in favor too…
BurgherKing - February 10, 2012
that should be a sign
that we shouldnt do it… damn! And i was in favor too…
BurgherKing - February 10, 2012
the best part
Jake suggests we trade Pounders as well in order to pick up another player or so. Jake obviously has no clue what is happening considering we already traded Pounders.
Haha
Cainyoudigit - February 10, 2012
I noticed that too.
I didn’t wanna bash the guy too much in one post.
Nate Wilder - February 10, 2012
You don’t really need to bash him. Just repeat what he says. This shit writes itself.
WTM - February 10, 2012
I'm waiting until he starts spewing out movie plots.
“Pedro won’t field any ball hit to him when Hanrahan’s on the mound because Hanny’s been sleeping with his wife.”
Nate Wilder - February 10, 2012
Why not?
He’s a maroon.
cocktailsfor2 - February 10, 2012
i will say this for him
even though i read neither, Jake is significantly more entertainment value than Smizik. The commenters on his thing were probably the same as Smizik’s though.
BurgherKing - February 10, 2012
I made the mistake of reading Smizik today
I 1-rated that creppy bastard and felt good doin it.
BadAndy - February 10, 2012
so the Yankees want an "OK" prospect ...
do the Pirates even have any prospects from Oklahoma? :confused:
gonfalon - February 10, 2012
Matt Hague – Oklahoma State
I’m ok with that.
Mr. E - February 10, 2012
5 minute timeout for you
BurgherKing - February 10, 2012
Angus' boy, Mercer, is too
Drufan11 - February 10, 2012
The potential of AJ
There seems to be a lot of people in favor of getting Burnett, but there is still a group of people out there saying things like we could have just had Maholm. Look at just a couple of important stats that could indicate what we would be getting. First off in AJs three "down seasons with the Yankees… he still had a lower BA against than Maholm in every year. He absolutely murders him in Ks and K/9. While his walks are a bit higher, if you move him to the NL central…. put him in a pitcher friendly PNC and let him face a pitcher. He could easily put up a sub 4 ERA and 200 Ks. Making him the best pitcher the Pirates have had in a long time. This is not an unrealistic assumption, so to squabble over a couple million or a prospect seems silly. He still is throwing in the mid 90’s, his Ks increased last year and the guy could strive in a small media city.
sidbreamslegs - February 10, 2012
I can't believe it took this long
“Yankees Want ‘Ok Prospect,’ Want Pirates To Take On More Than $10 Million Salary In A.J. Burnett Deal”
“Brian, you can have my answer now, if you like. My offer is this: nothing. Not even the fee for the wife’s limousine, which I would appreciate if you would put up, personally.”
JRoth95 - February 10, 2012
Rec
on that one my friend. Now if you grab a screenshot of that scene, photo shop Neal’s head over Pacino’s and Cashman’s over GD Spradlin’s, I’ll name my next son “JRoth95”.
Pagliaroni - February 10, 2012
cocktailsfor2 - February 10, 2012
Tanks!
Pagliaroni - February 10, 2012
2 Points We haven't explored
Trogluddite - February 10, 2012
As
far as I can tell, Pinstripe Alley is dead.
McCutchenIsTheTruth - February 10, 2012
Oh?
Brandon C. - February 10, 2012
No offense
:( Lol. It just isn’t as hopping as those blogs out west, Lookout Landing and McCovey Chronicles. I have read Pinstripe Alley a few times and really like the content on there.. if that salvages anything…
McCutchenIsTheTruth - February 11, 2012
Lol it’s really not dead though, those west blogs are just crazy crowded. In the off-season we tend to quiet down a lot.
Brandon C. - February 11, 2012
We like to focus more on the known than the rumors really, and we basically have a universal (with few exceptions of course) opinion of Burnett, so there isn’t much to discuss.
Brandon C. - February 10, 2012
I'm trapped here in New York
so I have a passing familiarity of the Yankees fans love of A.J. – I was surprised not to see a fund-raiser to help defray his moving expenses if that’s what it took to get this deal done.
Trogluddite - February 10, 2012
I know some people that would drive him themselves!
Brandon C. - February 10, 2012
By the way, love that you say “trapped” in New York. And that’s really not sarcasm, I’m a native and current New Yorker and I totally know what you mean.
Brandon C. - February 10, 2012
I'd be willing to be "trapped" in New York for a few years
if $ was plentiful for me
BadAndy - February 11, 2012
If we get brunette without giving up someone on 40 man, who gets dfa’d?
pirateinva - February 10, 2012
Personally, I’d send Abe Nunez II back to Detroit.
WTM - February 10, 2012
brunette?
I’d rather take the blonde ….. or redhead…….or BOTH
BadAndy - February 10, 2012
Nice.
pirateinva - February 10, 2012
You take the blonde
and I’ll take the one in the turban.
bucdaddy - February 11, 2012
Thank you - I knew I could count on you!
.
.
.SEE ALSO (particularly starting at 2:00)
.
.
cocktailsfor2 - February 11, 2012
Jeepers,
Terry Garr was hot in the day.
bucdaddy - February 11, 2012
Terri? Teri?
Hot. Hot.
bucdaddy - February 11, 2012
Teri... and yes!!! unfortunately, multiple sclerosis has really sapped the life out of her
<img src="http://filer.www.votigo.com/20327.3255.16080_large.jpg"/>
white angus - February 11, 2012
.
<img src="http://filer.www.votigo.com/20327.3255.16080_large.jpg"/>
white angus - February 11, 2012
one more try
white angus - February 11, 2012
What knockers!
bucdaddy - February 12, 2012
hilarious
karreemofwheat - February 11, 2012
Insert hair color joke
Brandon C. - February 10, 2012
On a completely different subject and I apologize if it has already been discussed, why didn’t we offer more money to the raysvfor the aaa first baseman who was MVP of league?
pirateinva - February 10, 2012
Russ Canzler was the guy.
pirateinva - February 10, 2012
maybe because Evans and McGehee were already added to the fold
white angus - February 10, 2012
and TB already traded Canzler to CLE
Brian Cartwright - February 11, 2012
I meant before the trade to cleveland, cleveland only sent cash to the rays.
pirateinva - February 11, 2012 via mobile
Moneyball
I know some of you hated the movie, but I found it a very entertaining investment of 2 hours+.
I’d like to see Neal in the role of Billy Beane when he wiggled Rincon off of Mark Shipiro. Mike Rizzo on one line (Lannan), Ruben Amaro on another (Blanton), and Brian Cashman on the third (Burnett). Not that I want Blanton or Lannan necessarily, but to force Cash’s hand. It would be fun to be a fly on the wall.
God Loves - February 11, 2012
The movie was good
Just hated the scenes with Beane’s daughter. Had nothing to do with the movie and didn’t move the plot forward one bit.
Bradley James McEachern - February 11, 2012
I wonder
Who the Pirates have in mind to dump off the 40 man roster, I mean obviously if EJax would have signed here they would have needed to get rid of someone too. I wonder since we signed all those ML Invites relief pitchers like Cruz, Reyes, Slaten, etc. I’m thinking RP will go or Neil might look to trade one.
BigB2323 - February 11, 2012
how about the rule 5 guy?
karreemofwheat - February 11, 2012
Time to get creative?
I can’t help thinking that NH has a chance to give up GFJ and a couple of middling to decent prospects for AJ Burnett, John Lannan and Adam LaRoche for roughly the $10m extra salary that they were prepared to spend on E-Jax in 2012.
RDV across the sea - February 11, 2012
To clarify.
Jones for Burnett should be a straight swap while LaRoche and Lannan could be traded for a couple of C+/C type prospects that the Pirates scouts don’t like (Bryan Morris/Rudy Owens?). I think the Nats are keen to trim their payroll and have Morse play 1B so Harper can start in LF..
RDV across the sea - February 11, 2012
are you suggesting bringing Adam LaRoche back?
Arent’ we O’fer Laroche? Can’t we bring back someone with a little more energy and a higher contact rate at 1b? Is Kevin Young still alive? Craig Wilson? Bueller? Anyone?
lloyd95 - February 11, 2012
Thank you!
Pittsburgh should be a LaRoche free zone hereinafter.
Have people forgotten how utterly frustrating both LaRoches were? And Adam, by himself, completely disproves sabermetrics.
BarryJT - February 11, 2012
I'm fine with bringing Adam back
but not until July. Let somebody else have the April-June .190/.220/.300.
bucdaddy - February 12, 2012
Does it matter?
As long as he produces what Jones would have done.
RDV across the sea - February 11, 2012
Reply fail… sorry.
RDV across the sea - February 11, 2012
therein lies the rub
I don’t think that LaRoche can produce like GFJ, except for the one 3 week stretch per year when he does his best Frank Thomas impression, blistering the ball to all fields. Then for the rest of the year he reverts to a steady diet of weak dribblers to 2b and golden sombreros. And unless he is talking about deer hunting you’d think he was in a near vegetative state.
So please in the name of Brad Eldred, keep the PBC a LaRoche free zone.
lloyd95 - February 11, 2012
jones is very similar to Laroche in that he usually produces in hot streaks.
but laroche is by far the better ballplayer, and always has been. Jones took Laroche’s spot simply because of economics.
white angus - February 11, 2012
not so sure about that.
I don’t think LaRoche is a far better player. Looking at offensive stats, I believe they’re very similar. And while LaRoche is a little better at 1b, he cannot play RF, where Jones is serviceable.
Jones is 2 years younger and LaRoche missed 2/3 of 2011 due to a shoulder injury and surgery. LaRoche will make $8Million in 2012 compared to GFJ in the $500K range.
Now I’d be consider enduring LaRoche if he came with Lannan. But I’d prefer we continue without any LaRoches on the payroll.
Interesting fact: LaRoche is of Mexican decent, his father’s surname was Garcia, but changed it to his stepfather’s surname of LaRoche when he was seven.
lloyd95 - February 11, 2012
jones will make 2.25 mil or 2.5 mil
depending on arb.
karreemofwheat - February 11, 2012
According to Wikipedia, it was actually Adam and Andy’s father Dave (also a professional baseball player) who changed his name from Garcia to his stepfather’s surname of LaRoche; Adam and Andy are both Dave’s biological children.
WHYG Zane Smith - February 11, 2012
ted williams was also mexican
karreemofwheat - February 11, 2012
A real SOB but one of the greatest Hitters, Pilots and Flyfishermen of all time.
lloyd95 - February 11, 2012
AND!
He’s only temporarily dead.
bucdaddy - February 12, 2012
I just think that's his head
will SNL have an unfrozen head of greatest hitter of all time skit?
Sometimes when I get a message on my fax machine, I wonder: “Did little demons get inside and type it?” I don’t know! My primitive mind can’t grasp these concepts.
lloyd95 - February 12, 2012
I think if the Bucs are going to try and make a move for the post season
Burnett is not the answer. Why give up an ok prospect and absorb $10 million when they can give up 2 or 3 and get an ok start that isn’t horribly overpaid. Why not try and nab Lannan from the Nationals because they don’t have a spot for him in their rotation.
dasox313 - February 11, 2012
I don't think they're making a move for the post-season
but a move to make a woefully inadequate starting rotation less woefully inadequate… I’d consider it a bone, thrown to the PNC faithful for supporting the current AAAA squad.
lloyd95 - February 11, 2012
yeah
as lloyd said, its a gamble more than a move… fwiw, though, I have no interest in giving up anything of value for Lannan either, and hope the Pirates don’t… 2 or 3 ‘real’ prospects is out of the question, I think, for Lannan (at least I hope so)
BurgherKing - February 12, 2012
I may have overstated how much I think the prospects are worth.
With the current situation, I would much rather get Lannan than Burnett. Sure Burnett has some clout behind him with what he was, but I think Lannan would be more worth it because he is getting paid astronomically less. We won’t even have to pay that $10 million a year.
dasox313 - February 12, 2012
Oh shoot
just realized that it is total $10 million and not a year, my bad.
dasox313 - February 12, 2012
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